Can we just make it official? Can we just say that those magnetic car ribbons have jumped the shark, so high and so far that they've reached escape velocity and are travelling far, far into outer space?
The following is a posting that Bruce D. Arthurs made on John Scalzi's website about *our* convention -- which he wasn't at, of course. (He wouldn't *dare* to show his face; he's too fucking much of a coward.)
Bruce, I herewith email *you* copy, too, so you'll know what I said about you in public -- something *you* have *NEVER* done. Just too, oh do I say it again? much of a fucking coward to say anything directly to my face I suppose.
*************************************************************************************************************************** "But in the end it all seemed to work, even if by the skin of its teeth."
Having known several of the organizers in somewhat similar circumstances way back in my misspent youth, and having been left with a lifelong underwhelmed opinion of them [snide scatological remark about dogcatchers deleted here], this is a better result than I expected to hear.
(Though I can't help wondering how many of the organizers, behind the scenes, ended up on non-speaking terms after the convention this time?)
Posted by Bruce A. | July 10, 2007 1:02 AM
Posted on July 10, 2007 17:15
Tim Kyger: Hey, Bruce Arthurs ---
I see that after 30 years you're *STILL* too chickenshit to actually say anything UP FRONT as to what you actually think about me. I refer to your oh-so-subtle comment in brackets in your posted comment. I guess that must be one of those awesome "writers" tricks you've learned as a "pro."
I still don't know -- after 30 years -- why you have a problem with me. You won't tell me to my face what it is, much less in email, or even much less in such as the snide posting such as you've made here on Mr. Scalzi's website. Even after I've asked you again and again as to what the problem is. After all, it isn't as if you were somehow hurt by *me.* Geez, dude.
The Heinlein Centennial concom are ALL still close buddies, dude. There wasn't much if any conflict. Yeah, I got mad at Bill Patterson once to the extent that we didn't speak for a few weeks back in October. I pissed off Jim Gifford and he pissed me off. We got over it. We had work to do. We got the job done and Jim and I are going to be budds the rest of my life. Bill and I *have* been buddies since 1974, and it continues to this moment. Tina Black got mad at me on Sunday -- I fucked up a big one -- but she got over it, since *I* was wrong, and I knew it; and I got the problem fixed.
Ya see Bruce, we're all adults, all grown up -- we're none of us the folks we were 30 years ago. While you still seem to be completely unchanged; exactly the same person, holding the same grudge (which, as I said, I'd love to know *what it is*).
And furthermore, except for taking potshots from the side, from extreme safe distances, what the hell have *you* ever done? Much less in life, too, I might add..?
John, I apologize for dirtying up your blog with my nasty post here for what is a personal shot against a personal shot, but I will no longer *EVER* let anything from Bruce Arthurs in public merely sit there like the turd it is without PUBLICALLY commenting on it. I will no longer let him get away with shitting on me.
Making a Con is like making sausage (and so many other cliches) something no one should ever want to see. Ya know why...it's never a pretty thing.
Nobody really cares if the concom self destructs as long as they get out of the con what they wanted from it. I know, I worked at Iggy (And I don't remember seeing you there a whole lot) and I chaired a couple of my own cons... you remember them... Phringecon One and Two. Number One went so great Paul Freemen sent me flowers. Even though Bruce Farr made the mistake of resigning, cuz guess what...I accepted it!
Number two went well enough considering Doohan's heart attack one week before the con and both my mom and dad dropping dead three weeks before registration openned.
By the time it was over, most of us weren't speaking and that included me, my (then) husband, and my sister! And we all lived together.
Try to remember that when concoms come together it is their time, their energy, their jobs, their families and their wallets that are supporting the con. If the bodies don't come, if the guests don't show, if the money isn't made (which will never happen until after registration closes on the last day), it's the concom that is left twisting in the wind in front of the hotel and other vendors. That is a very exhausting and emotionally scary thing...you just have to go home and bitch about the con!
Which reminds me....Which cons have you chaired? Okay, if not chaired, which cons have you been a named dapartment head on? Okay, if not a department head listed in a program book, which cons have been involved in where you had direct responsibility for something AND it was known in print somewhere that you were the "go to" guy?
Inquiring minds want to know!
(By the way, you lack of concom running is showing with one of your known "issues". Like airlines, you always overbook guests, knowing that:
1) Buzz Aldrin will always overbook himself and then go where his muse takes him (especially if he gets to choose a paying gig over a non-paying (H100) gig, or egoboo over really big egoboo).
((This to I know. Buzz has tried to borrow money from me in the past.))
2)Shit happens. Like family deaths, paying gigs, deadlines, real jobs, etc., that can cause a guest to drop out at last minute. You do know that most of the guests are not paid to attend these things right?)
What strikes me is that after 30 years why do you care so much about kumquats and such. MOVE ON WITH YOUR LIFE.
(BTW If you and Kyger have unresolved issues with TNH --deal with it--). Leave the rest of us out of it.)
Have you done nothing else with your life these last 30 years? Christ BD, I don't bitch this much about my folks dying or my divorce. Two things that are more shattering than Iggy, even you have to admit.
What do you care about any thing Kyger does or doesn't do? H100 is the first con running he has done in over 20 years. Were you interested in chairing this thing? Did no one return your call to volunteer?
(Beside, Kyger is not a powerful as you seem to think. There were half a dozen folks deeply involved in H100, and even more at Iggy and none of them rolled over just cuz Kyger told them to. And I'm pretty sure that none of them like the implication that you make when you rest all the power at Kyger's feet about what does or doesn't happen at either Iggy or H100.)
As with Iggy, someone asked Kyger to take the role and he did. Is your issue with his being asked, or with his having the guts to say yes and stand up?
Kyger did H100 cuz he believed that Heinlein deserved the honor and recognition. And when he looked around -- no one else but this concom was trying to meet the challenge. They asked him to help and he said yes. What about that gives you heartburn? and why?
Which reminds me, why was it up to a group of unpaid, unfunded volunteers to produce a Heinlein celebration? Why not any of a number of science fiction organizations that had money to upfront fund something? Or one of many science fiction publishers or professionals that have made their money off Heinlein's back?
Shame on them.
Run your own con! Let everyone bitch about how you do.
Scalzi said in his opinion there were issues. But at least he was there. And he participated. Where were you? And, ya know, Scalzi, believe it or not, is not the end all be all of oracles on H100. Others saw no real issues, and I'm sure you can find others who found even bigger bitches than Scalzi's. Including Kyger, who in his own p.m. has opinions on issues before and after his start date with H100 to whine about.
But at least he has the good sense to know the difference between honest difference of opinions and ideas, and turning them into personal attacks.
Actually, most of the net postings have been positive, or haven't you noticed?
As far as the rest of your bitching about Kyger...
Have you taken in a disturbed homeless child for 18 months in an effort to keep him going to school and taking legal guardianship so the adolescent boy can have medical insurance and receive treatment and medications?
Kyger has.
Did you file a disability lawsuit that went to the Supreme Court in effort to protect the rights of a disabled stepchild?
Kyger did.
Have you married a woman with a disabled child?
Kyger did.
Have you taken in a young adult with a drug addiction, help them through relapses and rehab, so they could finally get clean, go back to school and get a job, when their own family turned away?
Have you saved the life of someone you didn't have to?
Kyger has.
Do you send money every two weeks to a friend (and Iggy member) who is in need?
Kyger does.
He has also fathered two great kids, and has been a faithful and loving husband for 17 years.
He is working on his Masters on Space Policy and in addition to working full time, continues to lobby for human exploration of space and the kind of future that most of us want to be a part of in space development. Instead of just say "Ad Astra" he's standing up and doing the work (again).
My only real complaint is that he lets a pinhead like you erk him so much.
I would hope that you would find so many more important things to use your energy on than fighting with Kyger.
Believe me BD, if your interest in disability issues is real, use your time and energy there.
Fight some real villans, like assholes that are afraid that HIV kids are contagious in swimming pools. Or who think special ed is a waste of money. Or who think ADA laws aren't really meant to be enforced.
4 comments:
Tony Orlando and Dawn have a lot to answer for...
Whoever you are, you know nothing. All H100 folks partied together after the con, we are all calling and mailing each other still.
You don't know me.
I don't need to know you.
And had you been here, I might have had to *add* you.
Folks --
The following is a posting that Bruce D. Arthurs made on John Scalzi's website about *our* convention -- which he wasn't at, of course. (He wouldn't *dare* to show his face; he's too fucking much of a coward.)
Bruce, I herewith email *you* copy, too, so you'll know what I said about you in public -- something *you* have *NEVER* done. Just too, oh do I say it again? much of a fucking coward to say anything directly to my face I suppose.
***************************************************************************************************************************
"But in the end it all seemed to work, even if by the skin of its teeth."
Having known several of the organizers in somewhat similar circumstances way back in my misspent youth, and having been left with a lifelong underwhelmed opinion of them [snide scatological remark about dogcatchers deleted here], this is a better result than I expected to hear.
(Though I can't help wondering how many of the organizers, behind the scenes, ended up on non-speaking terms after the convention this time?)
Posted by Bruce A. | July 10, 2007 1:02 AM
Posted on July 10, 2007 17:15
Tim Kyger:
Hey, Bruce Arthurs ---
I see that after 30 years you're *STILL* too chickenshit to actually say anything UP FRONT as to what you actually think about me. I refer to your oh-so-subtle comment in brackets in your posted comment. I guess that must be one of those awesome "writers" tricks you've learned as a "pro."
I still don't know -- after 30 years -- why you have a problem with me. You won't tell me to my face what it is, much less in email, or even much less in such as the snide posting such as you've made here on Mr. Scalzi's website. Even after I've asked you again and again as to what the problem is. After all, it isn't as if you were somehow hurt by *me.* Geez, dude.
The Heinlein Centennial concom are ALL still close buddies, dude. There wasn't much if any conflict. Yeah, I got mad at Bill Patterson once to the extent that we didn't speak for a few weeks back in October. I pissed off Jim Gifford and he pissed me off. We got over it. We had work to do. We got the job done and Jim and I are going to be budds the rest of my life. Bill and I *have* been buddies since 1974, and it continues to this moment. Tina Black got mad at me on Sunday -- I fucked up a big one -- but she got over it, since *I* was wrong, and I knew it; and I got the problem fixed.
Ya see Bruce, we're all adults, all grown up -- we're none of us the folks we were 30 years ago. While you still seem to be completely unchanged; exactly the same person, holding the same grudge (which, as I said, I'd love to know *what it is*).
And furthermore, except for taking potshots from the side, from extreme safe distances, what the hell have *you* ever done? Much less in life, too, I might add..?
John, I apologize for dirtying up your blog with my nasty post here for what is a personal shot against a personal shot, but I will no longer *EVER* let anything from Bruce Arthurs in public merely sit there like the turd it is without PUBLICALLY commenting on it. I will no longer let him get away with shitting on me.
Bruce, take note.
Posted by Tim Kyger | July 10, 2007 6:36 PM
Hey BD--
Making a Con is like making sausage (and so many other cliches) something no one should ever want to see. Ya know why...it's never a pretty thing.
Nobody really cares if the concom self destructs as long as they get out of the con what they wanted from it. I know, I worked at Iggy (And I don't remember seeing you there a whole lot) and I chaired a couple of my own cons... you remember them... Phringecon One and Two. Number One went so great Paul Freemen sent me flowers. Even though Bruce Farr made the mistake of resigning, cuz guess what...I accepted it!
Number two went well enough considering Doohan's heart attack one week before the con and both my mom and dad dropping dead three weeks before registration openned.
By the time it was over, most of us weren't speaking and that included me, my (then) husband, and my sister! And we all lived together.
Try to remember that when concoms come together it is their time, their energy, their jobs, their families and their wallets that are supporting the con. If the bodies don't come, if the guests don't show, if the money isn't made (which will never happen until after registration closes on the last day), it's the concom that is left twisting in the wind in front of the hotel and other vendors. That is a very exhausting and emotionally scary thing...you just have to go home and bitch about the con!
Which reminds me....Which cons have you chaired? Okay, if not chaired, which cons have you been a named dapartment head on? Okay, if not a department head listed in a program book, which cons have been involved in where you had direct responsibility for something AND it was known in print somewhere that you were the "go to" guy?
Inquiring minds want to know!
(By the way, you lack of concom running is showing with one of your known "issues". Like airlines, you always overbook guests, knowing that:
1) Buzz Aldrin will always overbook himself and then go where his muse takes him (especially if he gets to choose a paying gig over a non-paying (H100) gig, or egoboo over really big egoboo).
((This to I know. Buzz has tried to borrow money from me in the past.))
2)Shit happens. Like family deaths, paying gigs, deadlines, real jobs, etc., that can cause a guest to drop out at last minute. You do know that most of the guests are not paid to attend these things right?)
What strikes me is that after 30 years why do you care so much about kumquats and such. MOVE ON WITH YOUR LIFE.
(BTW If you and Kyger have unresolved issues with TNH --deal with it--). Leave the rest of us out of it.)
Have you done nothing else with your life these last 30 years? Christ BD, I don't bitch this much about my folks dying or my divorce. Two things that are more shattering than Iggy, even you have to admit.
What do you care about any thing Kyger does or doesn't do? H100 is the first con running he has done in over 20 years. Were you interested in chairing this thing? Did no one return your call to volunteer?
(Beside, Kyger is not a powerful as you seem to think. There were half a dozen folks deeply involved in H100, and even more at Iggy and none of them rolled over just cuz Kyger told them to. And I'm pretty sure that none of them like the implication that you make when you rest all the power at Kyger's feet about what does or doesn't happen at either Iggy or H100.)
As with Iggy, someone asked Kyger to take the role and he did. Is your issue with his being asked, or with his having the guts to say yes and stand up?
Kyger did H100 cuz he believed that Heinlein deserved the honor and recognition. And when he looked around -- no one else but this concom was trying to meet the challenge. They asked him to help and he said yes. What about that gives you heartburn? and why?
Which reminds me, why was it up to a group of unpaid, unfunded volunteers to produce a Heinlein celebration? Why not any of a number of science fiction organizations that had money to upfront fund something? Or one of many science fiction publishers or professionals that have made their money off Heinlein's back?
Shame on them.
Run your own con! Let everyone bitch about how you do.
Scalzi said in his opinion there were issues. But at least he was there. And he participated. Where were you? And, ya know, Scalzi, believe it or not, is not the end all be all of oracles on H100. Others saw no real issues, and I'm sure you can find others who found even bigger bitches than Scalzi's. Including Kyger, who in his own p.m. has opinions on issues before and after his start date with H100 to whine about.
But at least he has the good sense to know the difference between honest difference of opinions and ideas, and turning them into personal attacks.
Actually, most of the net postings have been positive, or haven't you noticed?
As far as the rest of your bitching about Kyger...
Have you taken in a disturbed homeless child for 18 months in an effort to keep him going to school and taking legal guardianship so the adolescent boy can have medical insurance and receive treatment and medications?
Kyger has.
Did you file a disability lawsuit that went to the Supreme Court in effort to protect the rights of a disabled stepchild?
Kyger did.
Have you married a woman with a disabled child?
Kyger did.
Have you taken in a young adult with a drug addiction, help them through relapses and rehab, so they could finally get clean, go back to school and get a job, when their own family turned away?
Have you saved the life of someone you didn't have to?
Kyger has.
Do you send money every two weeks to a friend (and Iggy member) who is in need?
Kyger does.
He has also fathered two great kids, and has been a faithful and loving husband for 17 years.
He is working on his Masters on Space Policy and in addition to working full time, continues to lobby for human exploration of space and the kind of future that most of us want to be a part of in space development. Instead of just say "Ad Astra" he's standing up and doing the work (again).
My only real complaint is that he lets a pinhead like you erk him so much.
I would hope that you would find so many more important things to use your energy on than fighting with Kyger.
Believe me BD, if your interest in disability issues is real, use your time and energy there.
Fight some real villans, like assholes that are afraid that HIV kids are contagious in swimming pools. Or who think special ed is a waste of money. Or who think ADA laws aren't really meant to be enforced.
Move on.
Say hi to Hilde!
Kathy Cady Shirey Kyger
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